EPISODE SUMMARY
Guest: Dr. Gordon Elder
At the time of the recording (September 2022), Dr. Elder ha just finished a three-year program that, because of COVID, ended up being a four-year program. It was a 300-hour program for a post-doctorate degree in health for the brainstem, the craniocervical junction. The title is Diplomate. It’s a DCCJP, Diplomate in Chiropractic Craniocervical Junction Procedures.
The course was divided up into 12-hour weekends that were held in several different cities. They ran all day Saturday and half the day on Sunday, usually once a month for nine months of the year. It’s a post-doctorate degree. A chiropractor can't call themself a specialist in anything unless they have a Diplomate in an approved program. The beginning was a basic deep-dive, then it moved on to remind you what you had learned in school and more. Then on to the limits of research and current research.
The brainstem is the first thing that starts working at conception, that's the first part that's formed and it's the last part that stops working when you die. It's based at the base of the skull and the top of the neck. You cannot be alive if your brainstem is not functional.
Dr. Elder likes to work together with other specialists to resolve complicated cases, as opposed to just hoping that what he does eventually works. He says this about the DCCJP community, “ What I've noticed here is when you get people who are super dedicated to advancing, you realize how much you know and how much you don't know. How much somebody else may be-- what knowledge they may have. You don't have the time, background, or expertise to become experts in every field. You're happy to refer out and work together with other specialists and true specialists, not just somebody else who knows a little something. Really work together with other specialists to resolve the complicated cases instead of just hoping that what you do eventually works.”
Excel Still More. Dr. Elder plans to continue learning and doing some research now that he has time. He says about the Diplomate, “ It's given me the knife and the fork and told me where the food is, and now I can go get the food and start working on it.”
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
I'm here for a special conversation today. The goal of this episode is if you're dealing with a chronic, complicated condition, there are dedicated doctors out there to help. My goal with what we're doing today is to let you know that even though you've tried everything, maybe you haven't tried everything. There are some top-notch, very caring, and very smart doctors that are going way over and beyond, to always try to improve and find answers to problems that they see in their practices.
That is the Frame of Mind that I'm wanting to record this episode, there is hope. There are smart people that are on your side, and that are maybe even more dedicated to making you healthy than you are yourself. If you're feeling like, there's no hope, and I have to be sick and in pain forever, that is not true. I'm here today with a conversation with my husband, Dr. Gordon Elder.
Thank you for having me.
Yes, thanks for being here. How do you feel?
Well, today I am tired, happy, little down. I can explain all that. I just got finished with, well, a three-year program that because of COVID ended up being a four-year program, but of a 300-hour program for a post-doctorate degree in health for the brainstem, cranial cervical junction. The title is Diplomate-- assuming I pass all the tests, which I just took this weekend, which explains my--
Frame of Mind.
Yes, if I pass everything, I will have some more letters after my name, and it's DCCJP, Diplomate in Chiropractic Craniocervical Junction Procedures. To unpack that might take a little while.
I actually really liked the way you described it. When you said, "Brainstem health," I think I'm going to start talking about it like that.
Yes, so the brainstem actually is the seat of-- maybe not your being, but if somebody is in a coma, there's still brainwaves at the brainstem. You're not dead until the brainstem is dead. The brainstem is the first thing that starts working at conception, that's the first part that's formed and it's the last part that stops working when you die. The brain, the frontal brain, the top of the brain, can all be inert.
You could be in a coma, but the brainstem still working. It's telling your lungs to breathe, it's telling your heart to beat, it's working on things. Even if you're hooked up to machines that are helping your body do these things, it's still controlling some things, it's the last thing to go, it's the seat of who you are. It's based at the base of the skull and the top of the neck.
What I'm hearing you say, it's basically what the part of our body that keeps us alive, is in the upper neck.
Our most basic function. I mean, everything works together. You have to breathe, your heart has to beat, your brain has to-
Fair enough.
-be working, but it is the most basic functional part that controls everything else. You cannot live without that. You could be alive on a respirator if your lungs don't work, you can be alive with some machine making your heartbeat. You cannot be alive if your brainstem is not functional.
Can you describe what this program is? You mentioned 300 hours. Can you, first of all, talk about what 300 hours is? Where you were? Then more importantly is, how was this program organized? Finally, maybe why our listeners would want to care about that?
300 hours is-- I don't remember exactly the number, but it was divided up into 12-hour weekends, that would be all day Saturday and half a day Sunday usually, about once a month, nine months of the year. I don't remember three-- again, like I said COVID messed us up. I think it was supposed to be three years, four months, or something along those lines. Y'all can do the math.
Where?
Well, this was in a lot of different places. Every month pretty much was in a different place. I mean, there were quite a few in Chicago. There was a few in Tampa, a few in Atlanta, some other various places, one in Dallas, which was easy for me because that was a short plane flight to Salt Lake City.
All over?
Yes, San Francisco [crosstalk].
A lot of investment in travel money.
Yes, it was expensive program, not only was the program itself expensive, the tuition, there was flights, there was the taking the time off of work. There was the fact that my concentration at work would dip. I would be seeing less patients, because I'd be preparing for a weekend or preparing for testing or something along those lines. There's a, what's called, opportunity cost, basically. I'm making less money and spending more money. It was rough.
It's been a big investment, both mentally and physically, and time--
Time.
Time and financially. I also feel like, it's been a little bit of a sacrifice for our patients that may not be able to get an appointment on a Friday or things of that nature. It also hasn't been a piece of cake being the one left behind. I don't resent that, I'm actually really behind it, because I feel like it's really important. On that note, why is it important? What were some of the things that you're learning and then how can you apply that to what our patients are going to see day to day?
Absolutely, this isn't just some weekend seminar, it's not just some continuing education for a doctor, this was a post-doctorate degree, I mean, everybody involved had to already be chiropractors, already be in practice.
Essentially, what you're saying is, you're going from being a chiropractor to becoming a specialist.
Right. A chiropractor can't call themself a specialist in anything unless they have a Diplomate in a approved program, which this one is. Then it just depends on the states. Really, what it is, is specializing. It's like a difference between-- not just between a general medical doctor, and somebody who specializes in the gut, but maybe you take that a step further, somebody who specializes in the gut. Then, now they're doing more research, and have another degree in gut health and they have a Diplomate in their particular specialty, and it's a post-doctorate degree.
Why don't you talk a little bit about some of the things that you've been excited about learning?
Well, the beginning of the program was basic, deep dive. You could almost look at it as back to basic sciences, anatomy, and physiology, but going deeper than we did in school. Looking at all the ligaments of the upper cervical spine, for example, memorizing all the different nerve tracts going up and down through your spinal cord, brainstem up into the brain and how they interact. Then it moved on to-- once you had that basis of understanding or reminded what you learned in school plus some, then it moved on to the limits of the research, the current research.
We got to learn from specialists who taught in their field, in the areas of MRI and advanced imaging and what we're doing. How that's improving our understanding of the brain, and how we can take a patient with complex problems that have not been able to figure it out and with some new different kinds of MRIs or CT scans, figure out what's going on there. What's going on in the brain, what are some of the issues. The jaw, how our bite influences our brainstem and so how our brainstem influences our bite and how both of those need to be in balance.
Vision, the cerebellum parts of the brain and how they-- if they're weak here or there, how they're going to affect our posture. Then, of course, the posture will affect the low back and those kinds of things. It was basically getting up to speed with the limits of today's current research so that we can now start providing not only better help to our current patients, but also starting to push the envelope on the research itself. That's really, really, really exciting.
Yes. That's exciting to me, as someone who suffered from complicated chronic conditions myself and have been to multiple, multiple, multiple doctors who didn't have any answers. That there are doctors out there that are willing to be dedicated enough to learn, like you said, everything or as much as it's possible to learn up until this point. What it means to me is that there are doctors that are dedicated enough to devote themselves to deep diving into as much information as possible to learn on this point. Even more important, that allows you to make new breakthroughs and discover new treatments. In today's world where we have so much new, exciting technology. The other thing that I feel like I've seen in this program is the level of collaboration. When you have different experts that are the top of their fields, putting that together, that really can get a strong foundation to take it to the next level.
Again, the reason I am excited to share this, is this is a podcast about resolution to suffering. If you're suffering with chronic conditions, even if you've tried a lot of things and you haven't been helped yet, it doesn't mean that there isn't help available. Continue on your journey and call an expert and also be willing to believe that there are great doctors out there who are dedicated to your best results. Is that a fair summary of-
Yes.
-what you've seen in this program?
Right. It's interesting because I've seen so much in the healthcare profession that people are not-- doctors sometimes are unwilling to refer their patients to other doctors. I see it a lot in the chiropractic profession. I'm not really in the medical profession, so I'm not sure 100% how it works there. Sometimes, I think in the medical profession, they just refer people because they've given up. I don't know.
Of course, everybody's different, but what I've noticed here is when you get people who are super dedicated to advancing, you realize how much you know and how much you don't know. How much somebody else may be-- what knowledge they may have. You don't have the time or the background, or the expertise to become experts. You're happy to refer out and work together with other specialists and true specialists, not just somebody else who knows a little something. Really work together with other specialists to resolve the complicated cases, as opposed to just hoping that what you do eventually works.
Yes. There's a couple of things that I appreciate about that from, let me say, a patient side. As a patient myself who's been complicated, I've seen a lot of almost, maybe call it, doctor God complex. Where if the doctor can't figure out what is wrong with me, it must be my fault. What you're saying is it's the opposite, is having the humility to realize there's still more to learn. As part of that, the best doctors always keep learning.
If you're not always learning, you're actually kind of stalling and going backwards, or you're moving the healing forward. I don't know that there's such a thing as neutral in this. I really appreciate that there are people out there that are not just satisfied with, ''Okay, I got my degree, I know what I know and I'm helping some people, and oh, well, with the rest of it."
Yes. It's part of this program. There was many motivational factors for me to decide to commit what I thought was going to be the next three years of my life to this program. A large part of it was the collaboration, was the rubbing elbows with people of different specialties who knew things that I didn't. Broadening my understanding, my horizon, making those friendships where I can talk to them about different issues. Just also understanding where they're coming from in some of the things that they know so that I can apply that in my practice, or at least know that it exists.
That goes for the other people in the program, the other students as well as the instructors we had come in and teaching who are at the forefront of the research.
Yes. That is really exciting. What I'm hearing you say, and what I have observed is, it's doctors who are already on top of their fields and the best and the brightest wanting to Excel Still More, make it to the next level.
Excel Still More. Yes. One of my favorite phrases.
At the beginning of this podcast, I asked you how you feel. I would like to circle back to that. How do you feel? Then after you've explained that, explain a little bit of what you've gone through, well, this last weekend, but also I would say the last month. At least the last month, probably a little bit more, but leading up to this weekend. How do you feel now that this weekend is done? I would like to have mentioned that this is a Monday and the tests were Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
Sunday.
Okay.
Yes. I'm a little relieved, I'm a little depressed. I'm a little excited, a little happy, and it's all a big ugly mess, depressed, just because a chapter of life with special friends has come to an end of a sort, a chapter of it. I still have contact, but it's not going to be the same.
You texted one of your friends today and asked him how he was. Can you share about that?
Oh, he just said, "You know what I feel?" Oh, "Feeling empty.'' Relieved, it's over. It's done. I don't know the results from the testing back yet. I feel like I did well, maybe I'll have to repeat some tests. I think that I will get the award. I think I have an understanding requisite of that level of achievement. The excitement comes from, in three years I kept thinking of areas I wanted to explore, to do some research in, and now I've got the time to start doing that.
That's good. Now it's time to apply what you've learned in this program.
I can shift gears. I feel like now I can-- I've been making progress this whole time because I've been implying things that I've learned. Now, instead of looking forward to this test and thinking about passing or what the next seminar is or digesting what the last seminar was, it's like, "Okay, now let's--" It's given me the knife and the fork and told me where the food is, and now I can go get the food and start working on it.
Yes. It's been kind of a theme throughout this conversation to talk about taking current healthcare to the next level. Now what I'm hearing you say, it's now you're ready to go for it.
Yes. I think one of the things I wanted to say earlier and forgot about it is there's research being made in the medical world, in the scientific communities outside of chiropractic and they don't even realize that we've got part of the answer. Now that is starting to change. In a sense, we're at a cusp where we're starting to be more accepted, not just the weird guys out doing alternative medicine, but as doctors and scientists in our own right as specialists. Realizing that hey, the orthopedic doctor and the orthodontist and the neurosurgeon should be working together with chiropractic upper cervical specialists because we do better together. We're at the beginning of that.
Okay. Better together. I like that. I think maybe that is a great way to end this conversation. Again, bring it back to where we started. There is a team of people out there that are not giving up on complicated conditions. If you are one of those people who are suffering, maybe after a car accident, maybe you've had a concussion and now have post-concussion syndrome, and you're not thinking straight. Because despite all the treatment, it's still ongoing or may be chronic fatigue or maybe strange pain throughout your body, or maybe you just feel like things are going haywire and you're not functioning, and you've tried it all.
You haven't tried it all. There's more things available right now, and there's even more things coming.