EPISODE SUMMARY
Guest: Mr. Tony Hook
Mr. Tony Hook was introduced to Upper Cervical Chiropractic when he found himself needing a job. It turned out that he not only found a job but an extended family and a purpose.
In this episode, we cover the following topics:
Having a fire to help people and offer hope and healing solutions.
The importance of chiropractic care for kids.
Struggle with chronic pain.
How to find a good doctor when you have tried everything?
The importance of having a support person to help you through healthcare decisions and hold on to hope.
Weighing the pros and cons of different healthcare choices, knowing that you will have to live with the consequences on your own body.
Upper Cervical Marketing is helping get the word out about solutions to those who suffer from migraines, vertigo, fibromyalgia, TMJ whiplash concussions, and many other chronic issues.
All the best doctors have a good team helping them.
The biggest struggle in Upper Cervical is also the biggest win; the patients get better, so there is always a hustle to find new patients.
Videos are crucial to get the workout.
To contact Tony:
Tony@uppercervicalmarketing.com.
https://uppercervicalmarketing.com/
Upper Cervical Marketing Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/upper-cervical-marketing-podcast/id1070658018
https://open.spotify.com/show/0bIfehtFvfqGMxh7Eqa1mW
To contact Ruth, go to https://www.blairclinic.com
ruth@blairclinic.com
https://www.facebook.com/rutelin
TRANSCRIPT
Welcome, welcome, welcome to What Pain in the Neck. I am Ruth Elder, your host, and in this podcast interview, I'm sitting down with Mr. Tony Hook. Tony, welcome.
Hey, it's good to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
Yeah, so the reason that I wanted to invite you, Tony, is I feel like you and I have a little bit of a similar role in a way. You have a podcast that's geared towards upper cervical. It's kind of a strange thing. Like most people don't even know what upper cervical is, much less make podcasts about it. And like myself, you are not a doctor and yet you are really passionate about it and you do a lot to talk about it. And what I think is really fascinating is you talk a lot about hope and healing. In fact, so much so that I think your email address says Hope and Healing Solutions.
That's it. That's it. Yeah. Our parent company is Hope and Healing Solutions.
So why don't you talk briefly about your background? And why are you working within Upper Cervical and what caught your attention, what is it and why?
Sure, sure. So my journey to the Upper Cervical world. It started about seven years ago or so, a little over seven years ago. So, you know, back in 2016. And Bill Davis, Dr. Bill Davis, he and I went to church together. And long story short, I was finding myself looking for work and he had just started upper cervical marketing. And even at that point, I didn't know really fully what he did. And I just heard the term upper cervical care, you know, that type of thing. And my family and I had gone to like a general chiropractor at that point. But long story short, like I said, I was over with the Davis family at a Thanksgiving dinner and we were just chatting. He's like, “so what's going on with your life?” And we're just chatting, watching a football game. And he just like, “hey, I'm looking for somebody to do sales.” Ended up starting up with him that coming December, I think it was, or January, January 1. That was my journey into upper cervical. I started learning about it.
Yeah. So you mentioned Dr. Bill Davis and I haven't had him on the podcast yet. So why don't you just very briefly just introduce who he is and, and his story in a minute or so.
Oh, sure. Yeah. So he had a practice in, I think it was Encinitas, Southern California. NUCCA practice.
Which means he was an upper cervical.
Upper cervical chiropractor, specifically NUCCA. Had a practice for about eight years, was out mountain biking one day. Ended up fracturing C7, so his vertebrae there, and left him in a wheelchair. Partial use of his hand, one of his hands, and so it was just a whole.
So he couldn't be a chiropractor anymore.
He had to let go of the practice.
He still is a chiropractor, but he couldn't actually practice it.
Hands on. Exactly. Right. He still had a fire to help people though. Back to your topic of hope and healing, right? Like he still wanted to bring hope and healing to sick and suffering people. So there's where the company, the stirrings of that came about, upper cervical marketing.
So he started writing articles.
Articles, blogs. Yep. Website helps. Social media posts. It grew and grew. And this was years ago now. We're in our 10th year as a company.
So it grew and grew and that's where you came in.
And then there's an opportunity to be in sales and that's how I got introduced to it and learning about what upper cervical care is and what it, you know, and journey. My whole family started, became going under care and you know, we got to see the benefits of it and all that stuff.
Okay. So what were some benefits that you saw as a family?
Well, for me personally, I didn't have any chronic issues. Right?
Yeah. I mean, you don't want those.
Right. Exactly. And same with my kids. Like, they were under chiropractic care since birth.
And actually, that is something that I am super passionate about. I had a lot of chronic issues and trust me, you don't want that.
Yeah. Life changing.
Yeah. So go and get it checked and just avoiding that, that's a sweet deal.
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. That's one of the reasons. Our children, I've got two boys, they're now 10 and 12 and they were checked right from birth, like day 1, basically, you know, and so that was, it's, it's pretty cool. So some of the benefits I've seen, obviously energy, you don't get sick as often, I perform better, like my thought process, my activity, sports, that type of thing. Now my wife has had chronic lower back pain that came in. And so, we've actually been under care with five different offices, oddly enough, right? Some of that's us moving because we relocated from California to Tennessee. But we've got an amazing doctor team now. And it was about two years ago, my wife came off of pain meds. She was starting to find freedom again. And it's crazy though like going back to that topic of hope and healing. It's that word hope right where you've gone and you've tried to get solutions at this place. You were hopeful and it didn't happen and you're trying to find solutions over at a new place and you're starting over from scratch relationship building putting your trust in the dock or that technique or that strategy. We tried acupuncture, physical therapy, different chiropractic offices, full spine, upper cervical specific, all kinds of different stuff for my wife and her lower back issues. And so that's when she turned to pain meds. Like “I got to function” well, that it's its own trap in a sense. Right. Yes. So now I'm like, “Hey honey, like let's keep, let's stay the course.” And here I am working in upper cervical marketing while my wife is suffering, you know, talking with docs. And, so it's been great to see that now she's off of pain meds. She has her life back. I have my wife back. Our kids have their mom back, right?
That's what's significant. If you hear low back pain, it's like, Yeah, it's like nobody likes pain, but it's bigger than that, much bigger than that.
Yeah, it was debilitating. I mean, it impacted everything. She was having a hard time even working, so she couldn't work, she stopped working, and then there was this whole avalanche of impacts that happened there.
Okay, I want to grab a hold of something that you just said. So you go and you seek help, and you get your hopes up, and oh, it didn't work. And then you try the next thing, and. You get your hopes up, and that's a hope kind of in your hope and healing. And you know, maybe you do that over and over and maybe it's been years and years and years and years. So what do you say to a person that's in that spot? Sometimes I feel like for people, it's easier to just say, “well, if I don't get my hopes up, then at least I won't get my hopes dashed”.
It's easier to not do it. Not even go there, right? So just kind of quit.
Yeah. So sometimes , that's where we see some people, that's where they find themselves. So what is your advice to that person? We're getting deep quickly here.
I know. I mean, that's, that's an option. Sure. You don't have to put your hope in that something you can just quit, I suppose. But then you're not going to have any change for sure. And matter of fact, it can actually get worse. Because then you've got depression that can get into there, which only compounds things. What I would say to someone, if you're listening and you've got something that you're just struggling with and you've put your hope in things time and time again, your money, your time, all those things. And just that you've been let down. You need to not quit. You need not quit. You owe it to yourself to, pursue that. And you never know what that piece of the puzzle is that's going to set you free. The journey to healing is literally that. It's a journey. And if something didn't work, well, that's one more thing to check off your list. So if there's a dozen things that you've eliminated, well, you don't need to go there anymore. But what's something you haven't tried? What's an office you haven't tried? What's a technique or a path that you haven't sought out a solution because it'll be there. You know, our bodies are designed for wellness and this needs the right care. You know, we're designed to heal. And so there's a beauty in that and don't give up hope. You know, I'll say this though, my wife, Emily, she didn't have it. She was done. She was done. And. It was hard for me as a husband to be the motivation there, you know, it was the last two offices. She was like, “I just don't even, it's not going to work.” And I'm like, “look, you got to come on, babe. We got to try this. We got to do this.” And it's good to have people in your life that speak life into you and encourage you and get you going. And so, she willingly went along and you know, but once you finally found that solution, it's like, Oh, great. You know, now it's like, Oh, finally. Right. So it's out there. Yes. Don't quit.
Yeah.
Pursue it.
Pursue it, find support. And then I also will add, ask your hard questions. In our office I do a lot of, Talking on the phone. Typically, if somebody calls and they have complicated suffering issues, We just talk about it.
That's it.
There's no pressure or anything like that. It's just people ask their questions. I ask some questions from them to clarify and then we find out if this is a good fit or not. And I think you can kind of feel that and understand that. I think when there's a connection and a trust. And if what the person says makes sense, what is the person promising or not promising? Does it make sense? Does it make sense intellectually in your gut? I think like just our trust, we kind of have a built in trust meter that I think a lot of times we try to ignore. Right? Is there hope when you're talking to this person? Does it make sense? And then I think there's also that risk factor. I have, as someone who's had a lot of debilitating things myself, I look at what are the risks. So I have a very serious neck injury. So I'm looking at, you know, if I go see a neck surgeon. The risks are extremely high cutting me open or even looking at some of the medication. Do I - I could risk being addicted to this stuff and side effects and things like that. And then I'm looking at something like upper cervical care. Well, the biggest risk essentially is that it's not going to work.
Yeah.
There's no real side effects. Negative side effects.
Well, the side effects typically are unexplained other health benefits, like things I didn't know I had wrong get better.
Right, right. The good stuff. It's good side effects.
So yeah.
Yeah. That's a good point. Just, you know, asking those questions, not giving up. And asking those questions to that doc, you got to find somebody who's going to be really tenacious and pursuing results for you because not everybody's going to have that same tenacity, right? They're not going to have that same drive to help everybody. Every doc I know cares like absolutely. But then there's like some cases are just tough, just tough cases to unwind this complexity of how you got to today, you know, and it can take some time to figure that out. It's like a puzzle. You know, sometimes and so just, you know, stay in the course on that is important.
Yeah. And I do think it's also worth saying, you said, you know, a lot of doctors and we'll get into that next, but they're different levels of specialty. So if you're really complicated, like don't be afraid to ask the doctor, what's your certification? Are you a specialist in something? Show me your certifications, your degrees, your courses that you've taken.
Yep.
Feel free to ask those questions.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, one more thing I want to come back to too, is like, we talked about the consequences or side effects or whether there's - if you're deciding, “Hey, I don't know if I can put hope in X, Y, Z.” Well, the decision to not pursue results has its own consequences, you know? So like whether you do or don't like that there's going to be some things you'll have to live with regardless.
That's true.
So the decision to not pursue results is a choice. In and of itself. That you're choosing to do nothing. And things typically will get worse, you know, and so don't quit.
So in my case, you know, for 20 years I was gradually always getting worse. And then upper cervical chiropractic wasn't a miracle in that I immediately got rid of all of it. But I was gradually getting better.
You're on the right path.
Yeah. So it's like, okay, do I get gradually worse or gradually better? I guess I'll take the gradually getting better.
That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where else are we going to go with this?
Yes. But it's easy when you're in pain to just get stuck in that despair.
It's debilitating mentally and physically.
But I think that's where that hope comes in and holding on to that hope.
Right. Right. The solution is there.
Yeah, so we left off your story of how you got into upper cervical about seven years ago, and then we found out a little bit about your wife's story. But in those seven years, you have gotten to know a lot of doctors and you've learned a lot about upper cervical. Back then you just were somebody who needed a job, right? And so tell us a little bit about that journey. Like what excites you about working with a bunch of, well, let's just say it. Nerdy doctors.
Some of the most favorite times for me in this community, and it really is a community. It's a family.
That is true.
I would consider it a family. It's become that for me. Some of the neatest times is being able just to, to talk outside the conferences in the hallways and what's going on in their practice and actually over the years we were talking about my wife and solutions for that and then hearing hearing how their philosophy of it and and how healing happens and and all of these different things. It was always it was fascinating for me early on right away so I'm just like “talk to me more about this” and so I just I'm a learner by nature. And so I was asking a lot of questions and I found that there's a lot of docs that are like, “oh, great, let's talk about it.I love talking about this stuff,” you know, as you say, nerding out, you know? So we've had lots of long conversations. So I was just a learner soaking it up, man. I'm like, “this is so cool.” And it's a whole rabbit hole, you know, you can go down of - in a good way though, right? Just of like, wow, now that's why you do this. And that's, you know, how you address these issues and that issue. And then, look, they're showing me x rays and this and that it's just, it's just what a neat journey to learn how the body's made and the nervous system and all the function with that and, how resilient we are as humans, but also in some ways, like all it takes is one little tweak. And it sends out these signals like, “oh my gosh, help, pain,” you know, so.
Yeah, it's not even a tweak, it's just like a little light tap.
Just a little, yeah.
Yeah, and it, in fact, it's so uninvasive that the most common thing that we hear in our office is, I was laying there waiting for you to make your adjustment. And then it turns out you're done already. I didn't know you had done anything.
Right, right, absolutely. Yeah, so, you know, I've just enjoyed getting to learn about the world of upper cervical and then building relationships, right? And like it's become - over time it's become a family. You know, where you get to like, you see the character of people and overall it's hard to find a community like this that genuinely collectively cares about the health and well being of their community that they have to practice in. And that's refreshing to find.
People really do care very, very deeply and devote their lives to helping others in an incredible way.
Right. And it's making sacrifices. And we’re here right now, at a conference so that these docs want to grow and, and pursue excellence and get better so they can bring back more tools to serve and serve and serve. I can get behind that. That's why I've been doing this for seven years.
So that's actually, you just said perfect lead in for my next question is that I can get behind that. And that's what you do. So you mentioned you got a job in sales for Dr. Bill Davis's company and it's called upper cervical marketing. And so essentially what you do is your helping these doctors. Who are incredibly skilled. It takes a lot of learning and technical skill and knowledge of science and just incredible devotion that way. And then coupled with this huge heart that you just described. But then a lot of people in the United States around the world don't know what thing is And that's where you come in. When you say you, you come behind doctors, you literally are, you got their back and you build them up.
That's it.
So why don't you describe what it is you do to help doctors get their message out to the world.
Sure. Yeah. And that's key, right? I mean, here we are, you know, over a hundred and 125 years, of chiropractic, you know, and still there's so many people that don't know about upper cervical care. And it's like, that drives me nuts, you know?
Yes. And even though that there's different types of chiropractors. “Oh, I've been to a chiropractor once and he had jerked and twisted and” or like your wife, it's like, yeah, it didn't work.
Yeah. Yeah, not all, not all are equal, you know, and not all techniques are equal or strategies or philosophies and that type of thing.So I've always loved the specificity of upper cervical care and the science behind it.
So, why don't you describe a little bit about what you do in your job and then also take that into what are some things that you have learned from working with so many doctors and what some of the best doctors all have in common.
So what we do is, it depends on what the office needs. That's just like the best doctors treat their patients as individuals. There's no cookie cutter.
There's no cookie cutter. There isn't, there isn't. Do we have services that can apply to multiple doctors? Of course, but especially now we're really focusing on what is the right thing for you at this particular moment in time, right? It's different. It's different. So we sit and ask questions and listen to the doctors. What are the frustrations that you're having? You know, is it, you know, your online presence is really weak? Maybe people can't find your website. Maybe you don't have a good website. You need a new one. You know, maybe it's some branding issues. Maybe it's a new patient flow problem. Maybe it's a backdoor problem. You've got patients that are starting care, but they don't stay in care. So it's a patient education thing. Maybe it's social proof and you need somebody to help create videos for you and to edit them and to promote those. Maybe it's a, like, maybe it's the ads that need to be run to create pipelines of people that, you know, have migraines and vertigo and fibromyalgia and TMJ and sciatica and all these different issues, whiplash and concussions. And like, we can get those people that are struggling with the hope and they need the healing, but they don't know who in their area can even help. That’s what we do.
Yeah, they want to help and the doctor wants to help you.
We are the bridge.
But they need to know about each other.
A hundred percent. Absolutely. And if people look online, if they look online, help for migraines, what comes up? If you do that right now, like you would come up, it'd be all kinds of medical stuff and it's all pills. And it's, you know, so yeah,that's some of what we do. Uh, we also do some coaching now and training for the team because we've started to invest in systems in the office as well. So training the team on how to respond to the new patient call, how to listen, how to follow up with leads and just be a support, just be a support, right? We want to create wins. I'd love to see double, triple the amount of chiropractic offices. We need more just solid upper cervical docs around the world, right?
Yes. Yes. And the good news is we heard at this conference here that there's a record number of student members.
Oh, I tell you, there was like, I think it was like over 20 at this conference.
That are attending. But the Blair chiropractic society announced, have 240 student members.
Oh, I didn't know that.
I know there's a whole bunch of Blair upper cervical students that are in Puerto Rico right now, which is why they're not here.
So that's fantastic. That's so encouraging to hear. I didn't, I didn't know that. Yeah. So yeah, good. See that. That's. Yeah. That's so huge. I ended up bringing some books. Dr. Bill and I wrote a book together, right? Upper cervical practice mastery. And, I brought a bunch of copies, and was handing them out to the students to try to equip them here. Here's a tool, you know? And so that's another way we support, you know, the upcoming doctors, right? So it's just wherever we can be used, our hearts to serve, right? And there's one aspect of the technical side of being a doctor, right? But then there's also the business side of it.
So you're helping with that.
We help with the business side.
So the second part of my question is, you have a podcast yourself. You're on the interviewing side. And you've interviewed a bunch of doctors, you've done consultations with lots of doctors, you said your process always starts with finding out what doctors need. So I'm sure at seven years of doing this, you've seen some patterns and things like that. So what are some - actually, let's be a little bit vulnerable and find out, is there like a one particular struggle that you see doctors really struggle with? Like, give our audience a little behind the scene? What is it that your doctor might be thinking? And then secondly, what are some patterns that you've seen that all the best doctors kind of have in common?
I would say that, I'll start with the last one there, like what really drives success for the practice is team. When you have the right team in the office, that is -it's an amazing - you've got the right person answering the phones. You have the right person following up with, with leads, answering questions, that type of thing. And there's a dynamic there. That's just there's - it's like when someone walks in the door, there's like, there's an atmosphere there of healing. There's an atmosphere of hope. And you know, that's, that's when I see successful offices, they're able to build teams well. And, obviously there's the side of it, you got to deliver the goods.
It’s gotta work.
You got to be doing a good correction.
So you're making people better.
Yeah. I'm presuming that that's already a factor. Like that's done. Like you do a correction and it's solid. Like that
People have to get better. Like that's the bottom of the, at the bottom line is people come to us because it works.
Right. Correct. Yeah. Now, as far as like on ongoing success, cause even then you can be the best doctor, but if people can't find you, you know, it doesn't help, but, or you can be the best doctor, but you're not a great team builder. And so the office is going to struggle, right? So that usage of people and raising up people on the team and equipping them and working together. I find that the most successful practices are the ones that do that well. So team meetings, one on one meetings, defining the role for a CA
CA being a chiropractic assistant.
Yes. Yeah. Yep. Or, you know, associate role, the associate role. Like how is, what's the strategy for that? When do you start hiring a CA? When do you start looking for that? What are the tools to do to reach your community? Finding somebody that can help to do those kinds of events. And so the team building is a big factor for the success and the offices that are growing and expanding and really making a big impact in their community. They do that really well. Yeah. Yeah. And then I forgot the first question you asked.
What are some, struggles that you see? What's the number one struggle that you see doctors have?
So the number one struggle historically has always been new patients. Finding new patients to sustain it. Cause what happens with upper cervical care is, you know, all of a sudden it's like, “Hey, you're holding your adjustment and you don't need to come in for a month or two”
Or six months.
Or six months.
So I think it is one of the reasons why drugs is so huge. Cause you get on a drug and you have to keep taking it and then you might take another drug for the side effects. And so from a business point of view, that's very profitable. And so there's a lot of money to invest in marketing and things like that. In our upper cervical offices. I think that
It's the opposite model. We get you well and you don't need us anymore.
We want to fire you, but it's a terrible business model, but it's really rewarding as a person.
Yeah. So the biggest - historically, the most common problem facing the upper cervical practice is new patient flow. Finding, continuing to find the people that need their help. So that's always been number one, right? And we do an upper cervical practice survey that goes out every year. And so when we, every time we get the data back, it's what's your top problem? It's finding new patients. Now, in the last couple of years, the category that's grown the most is finding team members that are quality.
That hasn't been easy. Right now, we have an incredible team. And I don't know if it's because I don't think it's because we're exceptional at team building.
You hired right though.
Just the right people just came along and we asked them and they said, yes. So it makes a huge difference.
If you've got an awesome team, you probably don't give yourself enough credit then just for building the team. Cause you did something right. But it's hard right now. It's hard for a lot of doctors to find it like they're having to hire a new front desk person. That's there's a lot of lack of commitment in the marketplace right now and a sense of entitlement and Laziness, I don't know, apathy. It's a whole big weird mixture. Not every place is like that, but most markets right now, it's hard to find a good quality person.
Okay, so do you have any solutions for us?
Oh, yeah. Right. So we actually, and that's part of what we do too, is helping to helping doctors to find the right people and first off to define the role and then look for the right person, you know, and it's so rewarding for me when I can help an office to get that new hire that's a good fit. And it's like, O”h man, she's doing awesome. Or he's doing great.” It's like, yes, cool. Cause it's just such such an asset. You know, especially when you have a small team, it's just, you know, the doctor and associate and front desk person, you're hiring another CA or something. It's like when you add that one person, it can be such a major impact and they can breathe new life into the practice in a lot of ways.And so, yeah, we've got it. We have a strategy just to kind of do that and to find the right person and then to train them.
Tony, what excites you the most about what you do?
Seeing people get well. Absolutely. This was a couple weeks ago. I was listening to a phone call, a call recording, and the person taking the call at the office was saying, you know, “how'd you hear about us?” And she's like, “you know, I was online and I saw a video. It was a Facebook ad. It was a video from a lady who had migraines. And the lady said, “I've thought. If you guys could help that lady, maybe you can help my husband. And so I'm picking up the phone and calling you guys. Cause I want my husband to come see you. He's had migraines for seven years.” That's awesome.
It is awesome.
Like, you know, right. And it came from a satisfied patient and they recorded the video. They sent it to us. We package it. Boom. They then somebody else finds that and she's looking for it back to the hope thing again. There's your advocate, the wife in this case, right. Go reaching out and saying, there's gotta be hope for my husband, you know, and just.
Hope and healing.
That's it. Hope and healing. And he's just like, she wants, she, oh, it's so good. So that's what excites me the most is when people have these chronic debilitating, they've lost life, they've lost freedom, they have their walk around daily with a burden, they put on a smile. We're seeing people find freedom to find the healing that they need, get their lives back, do the things that they love, that brings life into those around them. as well as themselves. It's like, that's a win. That's what excites me the most.
Yeah. So we've talked about a lot of important stuff. Is there something that I haven't asked you about that you wish everybody would know?
About what?
Well, I haven't asked it cause I haven't thought of asking it. So, uh, is there something that you wish I had asked so that you could come up with this particular answer?
So I would say that like the biggest thing is just that there is that solution out there. You got to find the right office. I kind of come back to what we're saying about, about hope though. Like, just like, don't give up. I mean, gosh, it's hard though. Because sometimes you just get discouraged and you're like, “when's the breakthrough going to happen” that type of thing. Like keep pursuing that. Keep asking those questions. Keep pressing in.
Yeah, I agree. Don't give up. There is a solution. If you haven't found it yet, keep looking.
It just means you haven't found it yet.
Yes, exactly.
That's it.
Okay. So if somebody has a question for you, we'll put the link in the notes. And you have a podcast yourself. It's a little different than this podcast because I think the podcast that you have is really geared towards upper cervical doctors.
Yeah, yeah, and students.
But still, you know, if you're interested in really finding out more. It is fairly accessible to listen to.
Absolutely. It's on Spotify, iTunes. It's called the Upper Cervical Marketing Podcast. If you're listening to this and you've got questions for me, you can email me. Tony@uppercervicalmarketing.com.
All right. Tony, I thank you so much for your time and perspective and thank you for being the one that is working behind the scenes.
I'm an advocate.
It's really important for doctors who are out there and although we have a community and a family, that's what this conference is about. A lot of the doctors are maybe one doctor or maybe two doctors just alone in their office doing their thing. And so it's really important to know that somebody has their back.
That's right. That's right. We're here. Absolutely. That's what, that's what gets us up in the morning, man. All 20 of us.
Yeah. So thank you for that.
Mhm. Thank you.