EPISODE SUMMARY
Guest: Sybille Neuber
Potential trigger warning: This episode mentions suicide. If you or someone you know has suicidal thought, please call 988 immediately.
The “What Pain in the Neck?” podcast episode with Dr. Liz Hoefer, on Jan 17, 2023, talks about getting rid of suicidal thoughts.
Sybille Neuber is involved in many different things in Lubbock, a city she has called home since 1996 when she came with her husband and three children for six months. They ended up staying. Sybille is an occupational therapist. She works at a rehab hospital in Lubbock. And teaches a class in a warm water pool for people with arthritis. She also does a lot of grief work at our churchIn this episode, she will discuss suicide prevention as the Chairman of the West Texas Chapter of the Association for Suicide Prevention (AFSP).
Sybille Neuber tells her story of losing her youngest son, Daniel to suicide while he was still a teenager.
What she wants everyone to know is that hope is not lost. Hope is there for anybody. For those who have mental health issues as well as for the survivors.
The only way to relieve this kind of suffering is prevention.
In this episode, we will cover:
Risk factors and mediating factors.
The link to ADHD, physical injuries, environmental factors, disease, and family history.
Drug use: The earlier you start using drugs, the more your brain is actually changed.
How to recognize that someone is contemplating suicide, and how to help.
Talking about it is always helpful.
There's always hope. And if you're at the bottom, you can only go up.
Suicide survivor support: What friends and family can say and do to help those affected.
Losing a child is a pain that stays with you forever, but you can learn to function and find hope through support.
To Register or Sponsor the Lubbock Out of the Darkness Walk 09/23/2023
American Foundation for Suicide Prevention West Texas
To Contact Sybille Neuber: Sneuber6@gmail.com
Other “What Pain in the Neck?” podcast episodes that offer solutions to problems mentioned in this episode:
Jan 13, 2023 with Dawn McCready:
Jan 17, 2023 with Dr. Elizabeth Hoefer: https://www.blairclinic.com/podcast-episode-summaries/2023/1/17/the-miracle-of-recieving-and-giving-hope-instant-freedom-from-suicidal-thoughts
Jan 24, 2023 with Kyle Forster:
To contact Ruth, go to https://www.blairclinic.com
ruth@blairclinic.com
https://www.facebook.com/rutelin
TRANSCRIPT
Welcome, welcome, welcome to What Pain in the Neck. I am Ruth Elder, your host, and in this podcast episode, we're going to talk about something that's quite serious and a little different than our other episodes, but so important. And I think that it's possible that we can literally save some lives today. Before I continue on, we will be talking about suicide in this episode. And so with that said, if you have young children with you, you might choose another time or another episode to listen to at this time and then go back and listen to it later on. Also, if you personally struggle with suicide. Let's just say that right away. Maybe before you listen to us, call 988. And also there is another episode. It's episode number 3 of this podcast, that talks about completely getting rid of suicidal thoughts, and that's with Dr. Liz Hoefer back in January. You might want to go back and listen to that as well. So with all of that serious introduction out of the way, I really am pleased to introduce my dear friend who, despite our topic today, has some smile going in her eyes. Why don't you introduce yourself, say your name, tell us a little bit about your family and what you do here in Lubbock.
Hello, everybody. My name is Sybille Neuber. I am, as you probably can tell, not originally from the United States. I'm from Europe, from Germany, to be exact. My family came to the United States in 1996. My husband started a position at Texas Tech. I agreed to come to United States with three little children for 6 months.
For 6 Months. Okay. 1996.
27 years later, we're still here, and this is our home now. So big changes.
And you have your own career?
Yes, I'm an occupational therapist. I work at a rehab hospital here in town, here in Lubbock. I'm kind of doing a lot of different things. I have a class where I teach exercise classes in the warm water for people with arthritis.
And that's how we met.
That’s right. That's right. And I also do a lot of grief work at our church and volunteer a lot at church. And then, of course, that's why I'm here today. I volunteer for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.
So the theme in all of these podcast episodes that I'm doing is resolution from suffering. And in most of them, we always talk about a healing solution. So, yes, we can dig deep into difficult topics, but the goal is always healing. Well, our topic today is a little bit different because once we're talking suicide. You can't undo it. So essentially, the only solution to it is prevention.
That is so true. Prevention is the key to it. There are certain risk factors that make you more likely to even think about suicide, and there's also protective factors that make you more unlikely to think about that and then is the things that you can do once you really have some mental health issues and thinking about suicide that you can do. And actually the motto, the mission for the American Foundation for Suiciden Prevention is actually to provide hope and to support those who have suffered a loss. So hope is really the key. That's why we're here. And it's very interesting because 94% of people actually do believe that suicide is preventable.
That is great. And I really want to go dig deep into all of those points. I feel like you have the outline for what to expect for the rest of the episode. But before we go into that, why don't you tell us your story of how you got involved in this?
Obviously that is not the prettiest story to hear, but you know, as I said, we came to the United States with three children. I got pregnant right away with our fourth one, so he was our baby and our last one, Daniel. And he was a happy child. He was always gung ho, very social, always wanting to be with his friends. Always active, always in sports, starting with soccer, basketball, gymnastics, then going into swimming, a great swimmer. He injured himself sometime in middle school and that was part of him starting to struggle. He always had ADHD, not medicated or anything. He just was able to deal with it, just being active and living out the things he needed to live out.
So the physical activity was a coping mechanism for his energy, it sounds like.
Definitely.
And then when he got physically injured, he couldn't have that outlet. Is that how you understand?
That is correct. That is exactly how it was. And so his mental health issues became a little bit more obvious? Not at first to us. He started experimenting with drugs at that time.
And you said it wasn't obvious to you. So you didn't know about this?
No, for the longest time we didn't. We only found out when - we had some suspicion, but we found out when he got in trouble at school. Then it became more obvious. But we don't come from a family of people dealing with mental health issues or addiction, at least not obviously.
So you didn't know what to look for?
No, we had no idea where to go to for that. Who to reach out to for.
And so you said you didn't know, but you were kind of suspecting. Are you willing to share a little bit about some clues that maybe now, in hindsight, that you noticed, but you weren't sure what to do with at that time?
One of the things, and I always mention that because it is so striking. And that is where most mental health issues in the children are missed. He was just starting to become a troublemaker in school and at home, very obstinate and getting in trouble at school, just acting out.
And he never did that before?
No, not to that extent. I mean, he was always rambunctious but not like that. And that's what is often missed is that the people that act out. Those troublemakers in school, they're often labeled troublemakers and are sent off to whatever it's called now, where they sent them off, that name changes. It wasn't that obvious at first.
And you said that's really how this came to your awareness, is you were contacted by the school. So do you want to pick up the story from there?
Sure, it was really tough at that time. He actually got to go with the band to I believe it was California for a band parade.
So this was high school?
That was his first year of high school. So they were on the way, and there were some other kids on the bus with him, and there was somebody just standing outside a grocery store that they visited. And offered them some more or less innocent stuff, but still illegal. So they bought it, and that's how they got in trouble. Somebody ratted them out.
Did they get sent home?
They did get sent home.
I know there's zero tolerance for that.
There is zero tolerance. So they got sent home. At that time, we didn't really reach out for help yet. We didn't know the extent of things. Later that year -so that was in the fall. In the spring, he got caught again at school with some marijuana and at that point was sent to that program they sent them to. I keep on forgetting the name. I think they call it differently now. Anyway, so he was sent there, and I still remember, which is - it still strikes me and makes me really sad and hope we can change things in that sense. At that time, we still did not get any information about where to go to. What to do. They were just ready to get him out of there as quick as possible. And that was it. He started after that, he was sent to a different school. He could not return to the original school where he was at and then had an overdose. It wasn't a suicide attempt at that time. It was more like an overdose and was sent out again and finished school in a - at a premier high school, which is just a different kind of school.
So he did finish high school. And what year was this?
He finished high school in 2015. And he finished early. He liked that. It was good for him. He thrived, actually, in that small environment and being able to do things at his own pace. But still, at that time, his addiction was full blown, and there's not a lot going on, not a lot of help in Lubbock for youth, they have to be going someplace else. He had a few suicide attempts at that time.
Did you know about this?
Yes. And at that time, we really tried to get him the help he needed. So that was when at the time when he turned 18, we sent him to the ranch at Dove Tree, which is here in Lubbock. It's an amazing place. It went downhill from that. So he had a lot of struggle. But the thing is, suicide in genreal, I don't want anybody to think that, “okay, this is a person with a drug addiction. So that's why he died by suicide.” That is not the case. You always have to think about that it's more complex. There's a lot more going into it. It was never just one single reason. Again, his addiction was caused by his mental health issues. And just his way of coping with things was using drugs, which is fairly common. That’s self medicating.
Yeah. And instead of helping him. It may have just made it worse. Do you feel that was the case with the drug abuse?
Definitely because it changes. There's actually been studies that show the earlier you start using drugs, the more your brain is actually changed. So they basically stay at that level. At that mental developmental level they are at, they stay there. Really don't develop that frontal lobe. The executive thinking, the decision making.
That's why teenagers are more at risk when they take drugs.
Yes, yes. That's because they don't have their decision making. They can be very impulsive. And impulsivity is a big contributing factor in suicides, you know, after all of that. Daniel also, he started a relationship that let's say it was not the best relationship that resulted in a child. His little daughter. Our precious granddaughter. She was a year and three months when he died.
Oh, how heartbreaking.
Yeah. And that was a lot of the additional factors that came in, the environmental factors.
The additional stress
Definitely. There was a lot of going back and forth. And finally it broke the straw. And I think it's amazing. I don't share that very often, but he purposefully left the house.
Left your home.
He left the house and died somewhere else because he did not want us to experience that.
So despite it all, he had a caring heart.
Oh, he always did. He was a very kind person.
I think that's maybe a myth that we should just address. Some people think it's like the most selfish thing to do, but that maybe has nothing to do with it, does it?
No, it does not at all. You have to think about somebody getting to the point to even thinking about suicide. They're just in so much pain that they just can't stand it anymore. It's just so much pain and feeling there is no way out from there.
So he left the house. How was he found? And then, my goodness, I have four children myself. I mean, how did you manage to keep going?
That's a good question. I would say. It's faith. Because without my faith, I would not be here today. If you think about it, especially losing a child, no matter how you lose a child, most marriages fall apart. It is just a hurt. It's a pain that you can't get over. You live with it for the rest of your life. You learn to live with it and function. But it is a pain I don't wish to anybody. That's why I'm doing what I'm doing, because I don't want anybody else to lose anybody by suicide. It's just devastating. And the problem is there is still a big stigma, we're getting better, but there is still a big stigma attached to suicide. Death. Sometimes, out of whatever reasons. I mentioned to people that we lost our youngest son, and most of the time they ask, so how did he die? And when I say suicide, that is usually almost like a curtain going down. People don't know what to say.
What is helpful to say or do? I could see myself asking you, how did he die? Is there a right way to respond to you? Is there anything that I could do that would be helpful to you in that situation?
The thing I would think about is heartfelt compassion. Not just not saying anything. You can't say that you're sorry. Some people get triggered by that, but sometimes it's just a hug. Just a hug and letting people know you're there for them and not just leaving them hanging by themselves, continuing because the first time is the hardest, but that's not where it ends. You still need to reach out to somebody who lost the person by suicide. That is one of the things we do at the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. Suicide survivor support is a big issue. We're going to talk about the walk later. But the walk, which is our fundraising, but it also serves as support for those who have lost somebody to suicide. So Daniel died June 16 in 2016 and the first walk I attended was actually in September already. And I did not think I would be able to emotionally handle it, going there. But then our church, our priest at our church, they made a team to support the walk. And I felt like I kind of had to go. It gave me the courage to go.
The courage. Okay. Obviously you were in just so much pain. Nothing is really ever good at that point, I would imagine. But did you find that had some healing elements to it?
Definitely. Just to see how many people there are that are affected by suicide, that you're not alone. That is the biggest support. Yes. It hurts also to see that there's so many, it's kind of a double sided sword. But you are not alone. There is others who have gone through this that are others who can't support you, others who understand what you're going through. And that is the biggest thing, because somebody who had not had a loss like that. I could not have imagined this before. I never thought this would happen. But after this, you know how other people feel. Every situation is still different. But that support is just so valuable.
Yeah, I can see that. So together you have a community that you can be there for each other and then work towards making sure that that community actually stays as small as possible.
Yes, definitely.
So I think this would be a good time to talk about how we started. You said there are risk factors and then there's factors that make it less likely. And then also some of the things that actually can be done to prevent early on.
If you look at every disease, if you look at a normal disease like heart disease or diabetes, mental health is similar. There is really not much difference. So with heart disease, you know, there is things you can do ahead of time that make it less likely that you develop heart disease. One of the things, for example, is having a connection with people. I've read in my occupational therapy practice, I've read so many research studies lately that really show if you have a community, if you have people you're connected with, that can be the family, that can be the work family, another group that can be a church, anything like that is protective. If you look at risk factors. There is three different kinds of risk factors, its health, its environment and its history. So if you look at health, 90% of people who die by suicide had at their death a diagnosable mental illness. That does not mean they all had that actually diagnosed. A lot of the times it's undiagnosed. So people don't even know.
So when you say mental health, it's things like depression and anxiety.
Actually the highest rate is with people with bipolar disorder. But definitely I would say in general, the most common are depression and anxiety, ADHD, because it makes it less - those people are usually more impulsive and have not that decision making capability.
Yeah, that's so heartbreaking. It can just be one impulsive moment, and it. You can't undo it.
No, you can't. That's right. So we looked at health then things like pain. People that have chronic pain are also more likely. There is, for example, extreme pain like CRPS, if anybody is familiar with that.
Or what does that stand for?
Chronic Reflexive Pain Syndrome. It sometimes happens after you had an injury, and it is a very debilitating, constant pain. Or people with Trigeminal Neuralgia.
Which we actually help a lot of people with here in this clinic. And there's several episodes, and I can link to those episodes of people that have gotten completely rid of the trigeminal neuralgia pain through Upper Cervical.
That's definitely helpful.
And that's another reason why I wanted to have you on this particular show is, if that is the underlying - if you know somebody who's suffering with severe pain, give me a call. And we can help a lot of people here. But also Sybille and I, we're part of a provider network where we have lots of healthcare professionals working together. So if you know somebody who has severe pain, that's kind of my specialty. And I used to be in that space, too. So I just wanted to take this moment and say, contact me and I can get you some help. I can put you in touch with the right person.
Definitely. I completely agree. And another health factor is, for example, people with the traumatic brain injury, because that often affects their impulsivity in their thinking also.
Yeah, and again, it's the same issue. I can get you in touch with the right kind of help for that issue.
Perfect. Then the other part is historical, like somebody who had suffered an abuse in their life. That might be childhood, maybe adulthood, might be sexual, might be physical, might be just verbal. Whatever it is, they are more likely then you are more likely also to die by suicide if you had a family member who also died by suicide. Which brings me to that. I have another son who had struggled for quite a while now with severe depression and anxiety and he is getting the help he needs.
Oh, that's good. Are you just terrified for him?
Oh, yes, for a while I definitely was.
So what did you do? What were some of the actions that - you said he's doing better. So when your second son started, when you started seeing the signs, what were some practical things that you actually were able to do to help him? That has made a difference.
In fact, it wasn't me so much personally, but his wife, because they already lived out of town at that time, but she made sure that they reached out to the professionals, to a psychiatrist there. So at one time he was suicidal. And luckily, where he lives, they actually have a 24 hours mental health clinic where anybody can go there anytime, day, night, no matter what, and can get the help they need. And that was the beginning when he started to get medication, the psychiatric help with psychologists and talk therapy and so on, that's really helped him. It took a while. He's pretty stable right now, so that's good. The last factor is environmental factors. For example, the accessibility of lethal means. That means 50% of suicides are performed with guns. If you are aware that if you have guns at home and you have somebody who is suicide risks, you need to make sure that the guns are under locket, that they are somewhere else. And that's actually what my daughter in law had to do with my son. They got rid of the gun in that time that he was so prone to suicide. Another thing is medication. A lot of us have medication, including prescription medication, pain medicine in our cabinets. That's also, if you know somebody who is at risk or they are in your home, make sure that that is locked up so that they cannot access that.
Yes, I had a family member who was - I don't know how close it was, but there was warning signs that we took very seriously in early days. And we got the advice and said make sure there are no knives in the house, but we do have a kitchen. But what we just made sure is that even though it was past the age where they needed babysitters, we just made sure they were never home alone.
Exactly. That's another thing how you can handle that. Let's go on to talking about what other things that you can do if, you know, actually let's go back to how can you recognize that somebody is at risk. That is the most important thing because that's what's often overlooked. And we look at what they say, how they behave and what their mood is. For example, if somebody says something like I'm in so much pain and that doesn't have to be physical pain, that can be mental pain. Also the pain, “I'm just a burden to everybody”. Somebody is talking about I really want to end my life and so on, then you have to take that serious. And you have to trust your gut. If you notice anything, especially any changes in behavior, in speaking and so on, then behavior usually there is a pulling away from family and friends, not doing the things they usually liked doing, just really drawing in, staying in, not doing much. But on the the other hand, you can have the opposite. You can have anger and rage also. So any change in behavior, any obvious change in behavior needs to be taken serious. If you look at teenagers, they can be ups and downs. But if there is really something that is going on for a little bit, take it seriously. Giving items away, giving possessions away. That is another thing.
I wouldn't have thought of that. But that makes sense.
And then if you notice somebody is looking for ways of dying, of killing themselves, looking on the internet, that can happen too. And the last is mood. Really a depressed, anxious mood can also be that rage that I was talking about. But also somebody who's been really depressed for a while and then suddenly seems to be happy and at peace because that is often when they made that final decision to end their lives and they're at peace and they might go ahead with it soon.
That strikes me as a tough one.
It is. It is. Because yeah, you're usually thinking, oh, they're finally getting better. Everything is good.
So if we see any of those signs as parents or as, like your daughter in law, spouses. What do you recommend?
The best is to reach out to them, talk to them. Communication is key. Just saying, “listen, I noticed you're not doing so well, what's going on?” That's sometimes all it takes reaching out to them. And if you really seriously think they are serious with their decision, ask them “have you thought about taking your life?” The myth is still out there that people think that you cause a suicide by asking that. But the opposite is the case. The studies have been done. If you ask, that opens the line of communication that makes that person really aware that you care about them and they might open up and say something. So that is the biggest thing. And then when they say or they're really in obvious direct trouble. 911 is the number to call for emergencies if your life is at risk. So if there is somebody with a knife or with a gun that is wanting to end their lives, that is usually past communication. So you cannot and should not get your own life at risk to communicate with them if they're an obviously distraught and enragement or whatever that is really when the 911 and the police comes into play and they can secure that person.
Yeah, okay, good advice. I was going to ask you in the beginning, we talked about this new number that we hear everywhere, 988. So what is the difference between calling 988 or calling 911?
So 988 is really the suicide lifeline, we call it. American Foundation for Suicide Prevention was actually instrumental in getting that number into place and is working really hard, working with legislator and with our advocacy team to have the support for those places that staff the 988 numbers because they are not 100% staffed yet. But what happens is when you call 988, you get on the line with the person that will connect you to the closest person to you, and you just talk to them. And there's actually also studies. Again, I love studies. I'm just a nerd. But there is more than 90, I think it's even 95% of people that call the lifeline. I actually think it was 98. 98% of people that call the lifeline actually end up not ending their lives because it's often just getting, like we said earlier, just getting through that moment of absolute hopelessness and giving them hope, talking some things through. It's often just time. Time is a big factor that we need to get between the person and them actually being able to do it, because that's often all it needs.
So a lot of times it's a moment of absolute darkness. And if you're able to give it time, then it gets better.
That is correct.
There's always hope. And if you're at the bottom, you can only go up.
That is true. We just need to pay attention to one another. So if you notice even a group that you get together with and there's a person that was always there and suddenly is not coming anymore, could be other reasons. But there's nothing wrong with reaching out to them.
Just be a friend.
Be a friend. It's hard to be a friend nowadays, but reach out, call, talk to them. That's really the most important thing that you can do.
Yes. So is this a good time to talk about the walk that's coming up?
Yes, definitely. It's always a good time. Actually should have gone back because we are the West Texas chapter. We have a West Texas chapter since September that goes from all the way from the tip of the panhandle to El Paso, a gigantic chapter that we're working Suicide Prevention. So we do a lot of programs in the community. We have community programs, community education that we do anywhere from all age ranges, starting from elementary school kids, middle school, high school, college, adults, and then special programs, for example, for LGBTQ+, for veterans, for seniors, for corporations, all to educate people on this topic and what to do. Basically what we just talked about just a little bit longer.
So is there a website? Is there a local phone number? How do we find out about the resources that may be appropriate for someone we care about?
Yes, and I think we need to put that in the notes or in the comments later. It's AFSP or American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, West, Texas. So even going to Afsp.org and going to Texas, you'll get to that website.
We'll put a direct link in the notes:https://afsp.org/chapter/west-texas
And put my information in there too. So if anybody's interested in getting those programs to whoever you are and wherever you are, whatever group it is, we'll be more than happy to do that. But in order to do those programs and to do our Survivor Day in November and do the advocacy and the research. AFSP is one of the largest private research provider for suicide research. So to be able to do all the things we do. Of course, we're a nonprofit. We need to raise some funds. And as I said earlier, it's not only a fundraiser for us, it's also support for those who have lost somebody to suicide and also support to those with mental health issues. We have a lot of people that come that had an attempt at one point or another and that come to support the walk.
Let's speak practical here. When is it? Where is it? If you want to give, what do you do? If you want to walk, if you want to show up, if you want to just, I don't know, sit in your car and see what it's all about and look.
Yes, so the walk is, and I'm really excited about this, it's September 23, it's a Saturday, it starts at 6:00 at night and it's actually this year at the Ranching Heritage Center. And it's going to beautiful. We're going to have luminaries there. We're going to have little light candle things that everybody can make. So it's going to be beautiful. We have a lot of resource tables there.
So can anyone just show up?
Anybody can show up. Technically we would like for people to register beforehand. Registration is free. So you don't actually have to donate to register some walks you have to for us you don't. But of course any donations are greatly appreciated. People like - if it's corporation or a family or a group, you can make a team and then collectively be under a team name like we're walking under Team Daniel for example, and register as a team or register as individual and then you can or cannot donate however much you are comfortable with. I think one group, the Sunflowers Over Suicide will have a raffle also. So there's going to be lots of fun things there, lots of information with all our resource tables and yes, we would love for anybody to come. You can still come the day of without having registered beforehand. You will have to register then and there because that's just insurance issues. So anybody who comes needs to register. But again, it's a free registration.
Excellent. Come and walk on the 23rd. Give if you can. If you have questions, contact me and I'll put you in touch with the right person or Sybille, I heard you say that you were willing to make yourself available.
Yes. I'm actually the chair of the West Texas chapter, so yes.
I will put your contact information in the notes.
Yes, that would be great. And again, if you cannot walk that day out of whatever reasons, you're still welcome to make a donation. You can just donate and not walk. That is also an option.
I really appreciate your willingness to spend this time with me.
I truly appreciate you having me. The more we can get the word out, the better it is. Again, I said earlier, I'm a nerd. I really love education. So giving those education programs, that is my thing.
I think the knowledge can bring hope that it's not hopeless.
Exactly. Finding out what you can do and giving the people the security in that and noticing when something is going on with your loved one or the person you know, that is the big thing.
Yeah. So we've talked a lot and I've asked you some questions, but if there's just one thing that you wish people would know about suicide prevention, what do you feel is the most important thing for a person to hold on to in the darkest hour?
That there is hope. Hope is not lost. Hope is there for anybody. For those who have the mental health issues as well as for the survivors, that's what I wish everybody would know. Sadly, they don’t, but know there is hope. Even if I look at the death of my son, as hard as it is, I know that in the end, through my involvement with AFSP, it has really helped me reach out to others. And in fact, I know that we already saved lives because of that. So reach out to your friends,notice, reach out, communicate, and get the help you need. It's actually very courageous to get the help, to reaching out for help, to going to a provider to-. Just find out what's going on and get the help you need.
Yeah. I think that's the best place to end.
Thank you so much.